| Blogs > swallowtsui > Hopping Swallow 鍋爐焰焰 |
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Contradictions on blogging Yeah. I have contradictions on: To blog or not; I thought to quit for a while but seemed addicted to it. To write this or that, sad post or funny, thoughtful or laughable, poem or article. To share my little world or the big world, beauty or ugliness. To focus on what topic, life, nature or love, sex, hair, fashion or aggression. I have much to say, my heart beats, my mind moves, my sense dances. I cant say it all and say it out. Is it the solitude deep inside me makes all these contradictions? A Dai Wangshu quatrain to share, dont ask me reason: --- 四行詩 戴望舒 我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. Between me and the world is the wall, Between the wall and me is the lamp, Between the lamp and me is the book, Between the book and me is the septum(?). ---- 你和我之間呢? And between you and me? p.s. Help pls, davinci or mint or or gourmet or anybody, the Chinese 隔膜 means the absence of mutual communications and understanding leading to deep loneliness, but apparently septum cannot carry this meaning. If i put Distance, still unsatisfactory, any suggestion for a single exact word? 
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Chinese is really amazing. We can hardly find the equivalence in the English sometimes. Seeing your question, I found several words or phrases, but not sure which is the best one for that in your translation: mutual lack of understanding; unfamiliar with; dissepiment; septum By the way, I do not think you are in a dilemma whether you will go on blogging or not since you have already been addicted to it. Why not just go as you like to ease yourself?
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5/4/2006 1:32 am |
Hi swallowtsui, 我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a book, Between the book and me is a disconnect. Hope this helps. -Q
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Qianz As far as remember, you are quite a poet. Thank you for your nice translation. Barrier i/o of wall, light i/o of book, disconnection i/o septum. Reads nice. But i am confused on translating Chinese to English. Some master translator put out rules of 信達雅(Accuracy, fluency, elegancy), but seems hard to achieve all into consideration. If you translate the ancient poem, that's harder.
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Fantacy, thks for your help. Yeah, cant find an exact word to pass the meaning. We have quite some in Chinese which cant have equivalent in English and other language, like, 鄉愁, 緣份, etc. It is not exactly to e nostalgia or karma, esp. the latter, it means more. Som, Maybe a native speaker or a linguist can help if i explain the long meaning and ask them to find a single word. Just try. Pere, Void sounds possible, yet cant carry all the meaning. Thks for remembering me this word.
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5/4/2006 2:49 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, Hmmm  ... after further thought,我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. Version 1: Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a tome, Between the tome and me is a disconnect. Version 2: Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a tome, Between the tome and me is a vacuum. Version 3: Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a tome, Between the tome and me is a void. -Q
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5/4/2006 3:48 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, Thanks for considering me a poet  I still have a lot to learn to be considered one. My English is far better than my Chinese, so for me to try to write a poem in Chinese is fairly difficult. You're doing a good job in English and Chinese, but I agree translating between the two languages and maintaining the 信達雅(accuracy, fluency, and elegance) is very difficult sometimes. OK... fourth time's a charm... LOL  我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. Version 4: Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a tome, Between the tome and me is an obscurity.  Min1973... I agree it's American English, I don't care for disconnect either, but it's in popular use these days, you hear it all the time in the US... LOL. -Q
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5/4/2006 4:49 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, LOL... you have me wracking my brain tonight with all the vocabulary words I've ever learned in high school preparing for the SATs... LOL Here's a few more versions: 我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. Version 5: Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a tome, Between the tome and me is a schism. Version 6: Between me and the world is a barrier, Between the barrier and me is a light, Between the light and me is a tome, Between the tome and me is a discord. -Q
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wow... so many wise men. I have to take my words back and show my great respect to them.
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A feast of discussion on translation. Fellow bloggers, you really make me excited and think of the Bloggers' Meeting. So many wise heads and rich experiences meet here. I will revert and tell you my ideas to everybody's response later when i am more free.
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Between me and the world is the wall, Between the wall and me is the lamp, Between the lamp and me is the book, Between the book and me is incomprehension. davinci i hardly ignore your suggestion of incomprehension. Seems quite OK, considering the poet as a reader w/ the book. But still cant carry the profound meaning of the original Chinese word ge mo Thank you for agreeing w/me on the wall, lamp, book. That's what i gonna tell qianz. qianz, you replaced them respectively w/ barrier, light, tome. You try to bring out the deeper meaning. But the original poem and its artistic conception, as the poet wrote it, is more realistic and simple. What the poet was facing is the wall, the lamp, the book, and he marked down these simple easy things for the readers themselves to create images and perceptions. A translator should not re-work on them but leave space for readers to think. Btw, davinci pointed out a translator is a re-writer, i dont agree v much. A translator should do translation; his job is to interpret fm source language to target language based on the original work. He is the agent and bridge btw two languages, should put Accuracy (in accordance w/ the original) in first place, then pursue for Fluency&Elegance, make some adjustments suited to target language's characters and target reader's cultural comprehension. I think it is a "neglect of duty", even a crime, if a translator creates his own thing instead of honoring his duty on translating.
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5/5/2006 3:37 am |
Odd. No one suggested the word "separation"...
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Oh, my! I ignore that this is a pileup(chain) poem. The 1st line ends w/ Wall, and 2nd line starts w/ Wall, and so on. So, more challenge. My trial: 我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. Me and the world is parted by the wall, The wall and me is parted by the lamp, The lamp and me is parted by the book, The book and me is parted by the discord. Or, can i take off all prepositions: Me and the world is parted wall, Wall and me is parted by lamp, Lamp and me is parted by book, Book and me is parted by discord. Gourmet I agree w/ davinci, you first effor is not acceptable. The 2nd, estrangement sounds fine. Still we have not find the perfect word for the last Chinese word in the poem. I'm not satisfied w/ discord, just to see the effect. davinci I perfer your 1st effor than the 2nd. Unreadable? cant be. further fm the Chinese meaning.
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Correction: Me and the world is parted by wall, Wall and me is parted by lamp, Lamp and me is parted by book, Book and me is parted by discord.
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What's wrong Chinese FriendFinder blog? davinci, i saw you have 10 post on this topic, but we can only see 4 here.
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5/5/2006 7:31 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, Hahaha...seems you have chosen a topic that can be much discussed. True, I did stray a bit in my later attempts as I was half-asleep in analyzing the Chinese version and how to reproduce the intent and phrasing in English.  As several of you have pointed out, I do have much to learn ... in translating and poetry. As witnessed here and as what [blog Mint1973] pointed out, "there is rarely a single right translation, but rather many possible interpretations." Another example of this would be the Holy Bible; there are many versions with subtle difference in meanings between them.Now in regards, to the quatrain at hand (eclecticgourmet - I noticed you had a "quatrain" in your profile, clever ) even when reading the Chinese text, it seems many have slight variations on the interpretation and meaning which would lead to further differences in the translation itself. However as swallowtsui, and [blog davinci2rinpoche] noted there should be "信達雅(accuracy, fluency, and elegance)" and "great economy and beauty". This is what makes the translation of this Chinese quatrain a challenge! Here's another attempt: 我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. From me to the world, there's a wall, From the wall to me, there's a light, From the light to me, there's a book, From the book to me, there's despondence. -Q
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Qianz, I didnt notice you've used Discord. I tried hard to figure out his word but it seems i stole it fm you. Discord sounds possibly close to the Chinese meaning, what do you think? Cinder Separation? I've considered it but not suitable. Or, is it slightly better this way, my friend a translator perfer Void. Me and the world is separated by wall, Wall and me by lamp, Lamp and me by book, Book and me by void. How abt ISOLATION Hooh, we play on words or they play on us?? What a mutual game!
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5/5/2006 9:32 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, OK... a fleeting thought (another attempt): 我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. To me, the world is a wall, The wall to me, is a light, The light to me, is a book, The book to me, is detachment. -Q
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Qianz From me to the world, there's a wall, From the wall to me, there's a light, From the light to me, there's a book, From the book to me, there's despondence. While walking in Macau street this morning, the use of "there's" come to my mind. We have some small ideas in common, aha. I prefer your new finding of Detachment than Despondence. Your last attempt reads weird : To me, the world is a wall, The wall to me, is a light, The light to me, is a book, The book to me, is detachment. Dont you think you distort the poem? As to the last wording, so far i think VOID or DISCORD better suited. They correspond to the rhythm of WALL.
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MInt The world and I are separated by a wall, The wall and I by a lamp, The lamp and I by a book, The book and I by a void. Thank you for your improvement. As a non-native user, i m not very sure abt the "a", "the". What's more, the "I" and "me". I'd like to ask here: we should use I or me in this poem?
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"I is used as the subject, me as the object." Yeah, Mint. But i was taught in school and it's quite common in spoken English that "me" be placed as subject, for example: "You and me" should have a competition to see who reaches her first. By the way, what are you teaching?
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"This seems to have wiped out Swallow's contradictions about blogging. Another success." Yes, sir, DVC Somehow.
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5/6/2006 1:14 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, Hahaha....yes, the last one does distort the poem as it's missing prepostions...hahaha...it was a quick thought. I agree, looking at the poem in Chinese, "discord" would be the best translation for 隔膜. There were some lag time between seeing your posts as well as others, so when I wrote the last two attempts I didn't have the benefit of seeing any of the criticisms or remarks. However, I still feel that the intent, depth, and beauty of the poem hasn't been fully translated yet even with all the attempts by everyone so far. A case of "lost in translation"... LOL For anyone who may like to have a go at it, here's my interpretation (not a translation): Looking at the Chinese only, I intepret or understood that the poet is trying to convey the "wall" he feels in his perception. He contrasts the physical space to that of an abstract or metaphysical one. With each line of the quatrain, he hones or confines his physical space, which further emphasizes the great discord he has with the book (or its author). It's interesting to note on the superfical or simplistic level the poet is describing a singular object and event, starting from a general one to a very specific one. Each line is a reduction, until the "punch line." The beauty of it, is in its brevity of words. -Q
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5/6/2006 3:40 am |
Hi Swallowtsui, I feel like I'm putting one too many nails in a coffin, but here goes (last & final attempt - at least for me... LOL ):我和世界之間是牆, 牆和我之間是燈, 燈和我之間是書, 書和我之間是隔膜. To me, beside the world exists a wall, Between this wall and me, a light, Between this light and me, a book, Between this book and me, the discord. -Q
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Qianz, Thank you for your detailed interpretation. Yes you are right we havent got a perfect (or better) translation. When we read it in Chinese, we get strong power from it. The brievity and beauty is lost somehow in every attempted translation so far. "With each line of the quatrain, he hones or confines his physical space, which further emphasizes the great discord he has with the book (or its author)." Very good your understanding if you humbly said you are not very good in Chinese Can you get this picture? Each singular object wall,lamp,book,discord(or void whatsoever as we havent found the best word) appears one after one; their distance w/the poet draws one after one fm furthest, further, to close, closer. The book is the closest to him but still there is DISTANCE btw him and the book. It means, the obstruction/distance btw the poet's inner and the outter world is rather large and distant, no matter how close he is w/these objects. Even the book, his best friend, and nothing can soother this deep loneliness inside him. Can we consider DISTANCE What's your opinion?
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5/6/2006 5:24 pm |
Hi Swallowtsui, How about remote or remoteness? I think it conveys both the loneliness and the distance in 隔膜. -Q
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