| Blogs > swallowtsui > Hopping Swallow 鍋爐焰焰 |
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Chinese , Chinese Sister As all other Chinese, I like to earn money. Today, no money, no security. - Extract fm my private email to a friend. "Build your own reality. The reality is on the table." -Extract fm a philosophic dialogue w/friends Originally, I put the title as "money, Responsibility". On a second thought, I change it as this. I am terribly sorry for my own quick careless self-conclusion on money.I must correct here and declare to YOU and the world, "I dont like money, but I have to earn it." First some true stories fm women I know. She's 23-y-o,a newcomer to Macau fm nearby developed pearl river delta. She told me,"I have no time for self-improvement on this position. If I get a job pays more,I quit immdly. Now I am looking for it." A oldest of a widowed, unemployed mother,she has a brother working in internet bar who can support himself only, and a sister in university who she needs to support her expensive school fees. It's her, the and sister takes up the family responsibility. Her bro., 18-y-o,is exempted. She also didnt expect her sister would pay back her hard-earned money in the future. She seems to burden it solely and willingly. She's 32. Since she worked, she have to support the parent's big family, incl. her older married bro's 3-member family. She paid to buy the apartment for them, giving monthly family fees to feed them, educate the nephew.The bro. looks like a shit,sometimes doesnt work at all and wait for his younger sister's sacrificed money.Friends told her to stop .She just smiled,a little willingly,a little bitterly. Cases like these is numerous. Ridiculously,today Chinese society is ripping the daughters and sisters off. Parents work hard to earn their /sons houses/apartments, but giving nothing material (aha, but love) to their daughters. On the other hand, in addiction to inheriting nothing, the daughters and sisters must assume greater family responsibilities than sons and brothers. If a poor family have to decide on which should continue education and which to quit - they must let the girl stop shool to work to pay the boy's education. The artist friend who always lecture us - me and another gf - to build our reality - an ideal reality that's different fm our current one which he disgusts - high level,free. He thinks we are slave of material. (Actually,we dont make money to buy gold,jewellery and property for our own use.) But what's he? A guy older than us but living on parents' money to set up the reality he likes. He,like many other western guys, has no responsibility for family. He has only himself and those philosophic "gems" that only he himself has the time and right to speak of due to his "free", responsibleless status. Different culture, different values. We Chinese women also know philosophy and know how to enjoy life at its highest standard. But unlike you,Chinese sons/brothers, you have the deep deep spoilings fm parents who have lightened your burden and you seldom have any responsibility for siblings and parents. Unlike you, western sons/brothers,you uphold individualism. You develop yourself at full before marriage. After married, you only are responsible for your own small family. You have responsibility for your , but nothing for your parents and siblings. We, we have. Our weak shoulder is a bit heavy. Is it bcoz we get good education or bad education??? Why we are not living merely for ourselves? My Chinese sisters? Why you say, "I have to do it willingly?? |
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Eat well, drink well and talk abt philosophy. In case you want to tally me with one of these Chinese daughters / sisters depicting in this post, no, pls spare your sympathy for me. Thks heaven, I am luckier and i can find my balance btw individual development and family responsibility. This is my interrogation and a comparison w/ estern/western family responsiblity, and also female/male family responsibility in China. I have to admit the roaming artist friend provoked me for this revenge. 
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7/23/2006 9:22 am |
Swallow, Your complaints echo what I have seen in my own family and others I personally know. My paternal grandparents had five sons and two daughters. The second daughter they gave away to another Chinese family because they had no use for another daughter. The other family who took her in had three sons and just wanted a daughter. Of the seven original children, only three went into higher education: My father and the two daughters. They put themselves through school on grants, merit and driving ambition alone. The other sons turned out fine for themselves, just not academically, have middle class white collar jobs or own small businesses. In the generation that followed, I was the oldest of the 15 grandchildren. Two-thirds of those had not been born or were very small by the time my grandparents died, so the focus and pride of the family was mainly on the two oldest. The two oldest BOYS namely. Their supreme mediocrity was always celebrated, fawned over, overshadowed any of mine. I was a non-entity. I sometimes topped the school in certain subjects in a top school and had one or two other outstanding achievements. By secondary school I was told by my grandmother that I had had “enough education; it is unnecessary, unbefitting for a girl”. When my grandparents were still alive, my aunt who had not been given away and became a full-time teacher was still expected before and after putting in a full day's work to cook, clean and wash up after the men still living at home and/or unemployed and did not have to lift a finger to help around the house. The pattern is being repeated with the family of the oldest son/my oldest uncle who is retired. He has the two aforementioned mediocre sons and one daughter who is easily the most successful of the three. The oldest son and the youngest daughter work; the second is on and mostly off work. Only the daughter and his wife who also works are expected to do the housework on top of their paid jobs.
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7/23/2006 9:33 am |
On a side note: My second aunt who was given away? Even though her adoptive family loved her so much because they WANTED her, as a grown up she often came back to visit her biological family, wanted to be close to my grandmother whom incidentally she physically resembled very much, more than the aunt who was the “lucky” one that was kept in the family. So, in this case it seems genetics was more important than environment.
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goan, How if you tell him but he still insist, how if you tell them, but they dont have the ability to make it, will you honor your obligation?
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Mould , The attachment to family and relative has been highly valued by Chinese society for thousands of years. It does good and bad. Just read a headline that the universities in China are the worst in abusisng family/relative connection. In other fields, we are sure this plays an important role - a sound connection inside somewhere is 100fold better than your own ability and qualifications. So, when a man gets to the top, even his pets ascend w/ him." (All his friends and relations get there with him). Hopefully, it is improving now with enforcing supervision. on the other hand, attaching importance to family bond is very good for building a harmonic society by maintainence from every small units - families. Family members help each other, problems can reduced and be settled with family approach, thus easing off the country's burden. One absolutely good thing I like is that, unlike the western society, we live with parents/grandparents in their old age, give them money to sustain their retired life and pay back more the love and care we get from them. I am extremely sad to read news than somewhere in the West the lonely old man/woman died and ppl only know enough long later.
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Mould, Thank you for your family story. Not appraisable but interesting. Your family controlled by the old generation Chinese represents the very old and rotten Chinese family values, kind of feudalist - the oldest male son is holded supreme inspite all apparent flaws, and female descendants inferior. I think some traditional overseas families are more traditionally rotten than the mainland counterparts, becoz, they are not influenced by the many movements (brainwashing of confusian and feudalist values) launched by Mao. My younger sister and me were born at a time China started to adopt family plan for birth control. My father worked for the Party. Having two girls already, my grandfather who was originally a farmer but moved to Guangzhou for self-emploed carpenter biz, still wanted a boy to pass on the family name. Some suggested them to give my sister to a fine official family for adoption. But my grandfather refused and kept the girl. So, in his mind, a boy is de rigueur but girls are also valuable. He treated us girls very well - must get education, good things -. We, every grandsons, remembered his love forever. Guess this is owing to the new ideas he got fm new China. Btw, he was born in 1920s and passed away during a noon sleep in his favorite original village house.
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7/29/2006 10:22 pm |
Goannaoil, Perhaps your example of an alcoholic father isn’t a good one? As I think Swallow means alcoholism as a debilitating disease when past a certain stage the sufferer no longer has the “ability to make it” or conscious control over it.
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7/29/2006 10:43 pm |
Your family controlled by the old generation Chinese represents the very old and rotten Chinese family values, kind of feudalist - the oldest male son is holded supreme inspite all apparent flaws, and female descendants inferior. I think some traditional overseas families are more traditionally rotten than the mainland counterparts, becoz, they are not influenced by the many movements (brainwashing of confusian and feudalist values) launched by Mao. Swallow, Yes, in many ways the Chinese traditions outside the Mainland must be in a time warp or time capsule that may have evolved in much divergent ways or even died out there long ago. Not specifically with regards to “Confucian or feudalistic” values but even just in everyday customs, observances and festivals. That happens with most communities that grow away or in isolation from their roots and become their own separate species. I saw this in Israel when I lived there where the sabra (Israeli-born) are very different from Jewish people I've met elsewhere. Or Indian expatriate acquaintances who find the local-born Indians in Singapore a bit "quaint" and "backward". Nor does it mean these remain static. Some of us have been forging our own private revolutions. That seems to be the wholly natural consequence of being shackled in circumstances of extreme adversity.
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I C. goan. There's a completely diference btw the understanding and undertaking of family responsiblity btw the East and West. Mould, Some of us have been forging our own private revolutions. That seems to be the wholly natural consequence of being shackled in circumstances of extreme adversity. I like your mention of "private revolutions". Necessary for an individual under a common environment. That's how we recongnize ourselves fm the many social shackles.
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7/31/2006 7:02 am |
Goannaoil, Whoa, Nelly. I most certainly did NOT say you were "wrong"! I merely asked you a question, trying "to nuance" (to borrow Rinpoche’s noun used as verb) what you meant. I just wondered how much of what you were talking about was hypothesis or actual experience. I’m not that interested in the former because: 1) People will often do differently from what they say or espouse; 2) I don’t judge before finding out the facts and motives specific to the case or individuals involved, whatever their culture, “East” or “West”, North or South, black, white, yellow or bloomin’ GREEN. Eg. Last week in our local newspapers in Singapore, there was a report about a skeleton found in the flat of an old woman who was known to have lived there alone. Her neighbours had only just started to notice they hadn’t seen her around in weeks and could not say if she had relatives or not. Utility bills hadn’t been paid in months. It’s easy enough to jump to foregone conclusions and moralise here depending on one’s own agenda, isn’t it? The case is still under investigation. The ethnicity of the woman was not given. There are four main ethnic groups here (Chinese, Malay, Indian and Eurasian), not to mention significant numbers of expatriates/migrant workers of Western or other Asian ethnicities. If any had been mentioned you can be sure any of the negative ethnic stereotypes would follow, speculations flying thick and heavy. I have a dear ethnic Chinese friend raised in the ‘traditional’ manner, in turn raising her three small children the same way(she thinks I’m “so English”, whatever that means), but she has been unable to care for her elderly adoptive parents whom she’s had to put in a home for the aged. She is ridden with guilt over it but none of her younger siblings (blood children of her parents) who do not live with her and have their own families have offered to at least split the burden of caring for their parents. Does that then make her less “Eastern” or more “Western”? You’re lumping me together with Swallow, as seen by your addressing both of us in one post. She has own opinions and grew up under different circumstances and a different country from me. And gosh, we’ve had one or two differences or misunderstandings, lol. You two have been interacting longer with one other than either of you have with me. I do not agree that there is such a simplistic split between so-called “Eastern” and “Western” values. I mean, really, what makes Swallow “more Eastern” than me? On certain factors we’ve raised before, it could even be argued that monoglot Anglo that I am I’m more “Eastern” than she because I was raised under “rotten feudalism” without the obvious benefits of Maoism, lol. And let’s not get into THAT area, lol. On a minor note: Swallow, did you forget that Communism wasn’t an “Eastern” idea? More like Eastern bloc, lol. *sticks fingers in ears in expectation of another round of friendly shelling* No one can really tell another person what they should do in their position. There is almost nothing in life I would like better than to repay my financial debt to my father… apart from the fact there are times I vehemently and truly wish him dead. So, hard as it might be for you, goannaoil, to believe, I do agree with you in a general sense about obligation to self and own well-being first. I haven’t spoken or seen him in two years. After years of trying to put behind me an episode where he attempted to sexually assault me in my late adolescence, to remain dutiful and respectful to my parents, his tyranny and excuses for his own behaviour continued in other ways that I finally, violently I might add, severed contact with him. The repercussions of this are ostracisation (mine) from my father’s clan because after all in the scheme of things I’m only a mere girl of the family, worth less than any man, and even less than that now being presumed the troublemaker, and my father’s wrath for causing him loss of ‘face’ even though the rest have not and may never uncover the underlying reason behind our fight. Under normal, happy circumstances what moral person with any sense of right and wrong derives any pleasure from being estranged from a parent who looked after us, clothed us, fed us, and not being able to repay that debt? What the beast did to me MORE than cancels any debt I ever owed him. He has never shown the slightest shame or remorse, the opposite in fact. I was punished several times as a child for being “disrespectful”, forced to kneel in front of my parents as penance and caned with a bamboo stick. By the same token I would only accept five strokes of the rotan as fair and reasonable punishment for an adult sex offender. Then we would be even. Unfortunately, that isn’t going to happen. He almost destroyed my life. The odds stacked against me, the weight of history, are too high. I cannot cut away and correct all the evils of a system that nurtured a monster like him and now naturally rally around him giving him the benefit of the doubt instead of me, by myself. All his siblings, male and female, are just variations of him to different degrees. The best recourse was to remove myself from the family and save myself. Not trying to be a martyr like some folk I’ve seen around here who make a virtue of self pity, just hoping to see a bit less cynicism and self righteousness, more attempt at mutual understanding all round. Peace.
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8/1/2006 8:54 am |
Goannaoil, ok. Thanks for clarifying. (Sounds like ghee.) I haven't seen most of this stuff you said elsewhere except: To my mind, a child does not owe the parent as the parent does what they wish by having the kid to begin with. The child pays debt that back to the next generation. Oh, and I agree with EVERYTHING you said! Hurrah! And I'm not saying this so we can stop arguing! ... Save the part about what I think was market economics, way over my head, but don't explain, I get it, I get the gist of it!
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8/2/2006 3:57 am |
Rinpoche, My mother, sister and ex husband know. But are in semi-denial. The extended family on my father’s side do not (uncles and aunts; grandparents are deceased), save my first cousin’s wife who is slightly on the ‘outside’. My aunt and uncle on my mother’s side know because I told them after the final violent altercation with my father. They used to berate me for what they called the “disrespect” I showed my father. They’ve stopped doing that and incidentally seem to regard me now as some kind of moral authority in the family and/or often defer to my opinions on kinds of family matters. It would not seem a big deal in a “Western” family where inter-generational relationships are more egalitarian or discursive. It feels a little strange (but also, much more right) because even though my mother’s side of the family are now devout Christians, the Confucian generational hierarchy is still marked, formally anyway, by the terms of address/’titles’ we use for everyone ranked in age and seniority above you. My mother, sister and ex husband accepted my father’s version of what happened, which is that ‘all’ he did was to verbally offer to teach me how to do a sex act to “relief [my] tension”. This was the lesser part of what happened. I offered to reenact what really happened to my sister, with my sister being me at the time and me being my father. But they prefer the lie; I saw the begging and fear in her eyes. Even that would be too harrowing for her. I’m not sure I can go through the trauma even in reconstruction without being violently sick myself or worse. My sister has kept repeating or justifying her position that because our father had never attempted to assault her it could not have happened in the way I described it. An example of how the mind can contort itself to the desired reality even in the face of bare facts. The same thing happened with an elderly female Jungian psychiatrist I saw informally in Israel when I related my story to her. She seemed a tough old bird, as Israelis as a nationality are and I say this with admiration and respect, being also Orthodox Jewish, with family members who had been murdered in Nazi camps. In the initial weeks when I spoke about my troubles in a general way without details, she insisted I patched things up with my father. So I gave her the reasons for my apparent intransigence and said it was not possible with someone who would not come to the table and admit his wrongdoing. She went into denial; she tried to excuse his act or describe it on her own terms. I felt slapped in the face by this woman. Oddly enough her professional demeanour seemed to be cracking as I stared back at her steadily. I told her I didn’t need to be betrayed by someone who was supposed to be my advocate. I told her what she was saying was like the Iranians saying the Jewish exaggerated the Holocaust, and I discharged her. I found another psychiatrist in the same practice who proved much more supportive. Not “guts”, Rinpoche. Probably naïveté as I forget it’s not just the people I chat directly with that read these blogs. And I’m a bit tired of secondhand commentary on things that happen to other people and unconstructive speculation or generalisation. I don’t have the strength or inclination to deal with the REAL falling house of cards ‒ what would I get for pursuing that course of action? The whole clan needs long term rehabilitation or have to live out their own individual karmas. As long as they stay away and don’t interfere with mine.
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gourmet, I feel your deep love and pain for your son. Fine that here c/b yr vent of pressures, though his case is far different fm Mold's. May I venture to ask: are you overworried abt your son and impose yourself on him? If he is as such a talent, you know, a genius thinks, behave and reacts quite different fm normal ppl. Why not let him be himself and develop his talents?
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Mold, When it happened, you were living in Singapore, a country regarded to have confusian influence and high western civilization. Though what you revealed was completely intolerate, should it happen anywhere. Their denial, both yr family memeber's and the psychiatrist's, is kind of self-cheating. I am sure they know/admit the truth but they chose to deny to keep family harmony, and hide the ugliness of your family (in case of yr mom, sis, etc); and chose to deny to keep their belief and faith safe. But what's the relationship w/ Chinese or confusian values in this case? It's the opposite side, this kind of brutal action is a betrayal of such values, of which the main theme is "love your own seniors and those of others; love your own children and those of others". Patriarchy is honored only when it is decent, trustful, honorable, but not honored blindly!! I feel angry, really, for all the false ppl who should be responsible for the worsening of the situation. Besides ethics, there's law. Did the teen Mold forget abt that? The world is indeed dangerous when a handful guys spread their shits as gospel, and use their distorted "morals" and "golden rules" as a disguise to commit crime!
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Goan, Seems you had a drunkard father abusing your childhood. Beat him now when he's old and you are much stronger I am dumbfounded to know you have more drunkard fathers in the west beating their children. I have a good friend also has such a father.
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Hi the trio experienced parents, How to show the children love and make them feel it? Your daily speaking and behaviors are very important. You are the model role that a kid look up to. Start it fm very early age would yield twice the result w/ half effor.
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"I would NEVER even dare to imagine that any of my three children (14, 19 and 24) OWES me anything. " DVC, Oh, forget to respond to this interesting point, a big gap btw eastern and western culture. Neither my parents, many Chinese parents or myself if I have the chance to be one of the parents. But it is deep in our culture and ethic values that the young should respect the old and honor filial duty (incl.love, care, money...) when our parents get older and need more such support. I find it funny to find my portuguese friend's daughter charges him for some service commission. This will never happen btw a Chinese daughter and father coz for us it is very natural to repay the significant responsibilities/attenions/favors/kindness our parents have paid to us. I think it is better than the western system. Parents feed sons, sons feed sons but there is no feedback fm sons to parents, leaving many elderly dying at home and in the nursery alone without a son/daughter's care, some even die for long without nobody knowing.
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Well DVC. I respect your system. So happy welware that Chinese currently dont enjoy. But how could you extend our filial tradition to dependency and freedom? I only see our system is much more humane and warm, let aside the lack of a self-sufficient social welfare system. My parents also has pension but we still "feed" them and care them, just expression way of respect. Consicious young ppl usually give lucky money to seniors in specail occassions, just as they gave us when we were children/teens. I see more reciprocation btw Chinese parents and sons/daughters. It's two way, not one way like westerners. One great difference: Chinese feel more close to parents when they grow older; you feel close to yr parents when you were young and abandon them at older age.
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They are self-sufficient adults, not beggars, and as such, can deal on an equal footing with anybody, rich or poor. They keep their dignity. Well, do u imply our parents dont have dignity? On the contrary, they keep both dignity and happiness with children around them (not necessarily phisically). Over-exaggerate your serious head. Guess very difficult to explain you 3000-y-o traditional values. Stop. One thing China must keep those good ones, not to the extent of totally westernized.
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My dear DVC, Is it pension one part of the state's welware system? Pls correct me if i am wrong. THks for your pacient explanation. China is now adopting it - so-called social security fund - 5% by employee, 6% by employer, and manage the fund in the market for investment/re-generation for more black ink. But many employers deal it in their own short-sighted irresponsible way: only buy a small portion, e.g., if he has 800 workers, he only commits to 200; or falsely report the employee's salary by less it in order to save his money. Some ppl, insufficient of information, misunderstand this system and are happy not to pay his percentage, to the employers' delight. Some employers fool the workers by spreading speculation of this policy. The central government has laid out lots of good policies, however, when they go down to the local government, a great deal is misconducted. We have a long way to go. Yet come back to our arguing point: On top of old-age pension, still Chinese traditional system is more humane and warm. Pls read magot's post abt a visit to his grandpa's nursing home, pls read those lonely pitiful old ppl. Is it the lonesomeness that you translate into freedom? Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan has developed quite good an old-age pension system. Senior citizens receive pension. Still, they receive enough love/care/respect fm their younger kin, financially and mentally. I always advocate to maintain and further enhance those good merits in traditional Chinese values, and, get rid of those dross. I also advocate exchange of the good things btw Chinese and foreign culture.
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BTW, DVC. Pension system was at its peak during the misinterpreted communist time, 1950's-1980's, until the mid of 1990's, though it only covers to public servants and employees of state-run companies. Such is my father/mother's case. So, you see, in the four decades, some portion of ppl enjoy pension. But the Chinese system still keep working in this traditional way - the young must pay respect to the old, deep in the ethical concept, disregard they have financial freedom or not.
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