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Does a man’s salary matter? Does a man’s salary matter? By Amanda May These days, women are about as likely to bring home the bacon as their male counterparts. But has this affected what kind of guy women want to date — is the size of a man’s salary still a critical element? To get the answer, we gathered together a group of men, women and relationship experts to talk about this controversial topic — and get some advice on how to handle the situation whether you’re a male or female, flush with cash or just getting by. Participating in our roundtable: Jillian Straus, author of Unhooked Generation: The Truth About Why We’re Still Single Liz Kelly, author of Smart Man Hunting: A Fast-Track Dating Guide for Finding Mr. Right Jen, 25, legal recruiter, New York Haley, 32, public relations director, California Rebecca, 30, writer, Kansas Sebastian, 30, consultant and founder of a non-profit, New York Dann, 30, TV news producer, New York [comments in "Red", added by me] Q: Even in a day when women often out-earn men, do they still prefer to date a guy with a sizable paycheck? Jillian Straus: I’m often astonished to overhear conversations at restaurants where a woman will ask her girlfriend, “Does he make money?” Women often want a more successful man, even if they’re successful themselves — one study found that successful women want to be with a successful man even more so than their less successful counterparts. Dann: There are definitely a lot of women who keep an eye on the man’s wallet. That’s why you see some women perk up when a man says he’s a doctor or a lawyer. And if he’s a hot doctor or lawyer, forget about it! Haley: It’s not that I couldn’t fall in love with someone who made less money than I do, but it would be difficult. I want to settle down with someone who can take care of me and support a family. { 'what happen to sharing" } Rebecca: money has never been a consideration for me. Can someone make me happy, make me laugh, and carry on an intellectually stimulating conversation? I think about those things first and money much, much later. { if men had looked for women with money, there would have been fewer relationships } Q: So why do some women still think the size of a man’s salary is still important, even if they’re making money themselves? Jillian Straus: We are psychologically living between today, which is the modern world, and what we saw growing up, which influenced how we define the roles and behaviors of “man” and “woman.” And in some cases, women want the choice of whether or not to stay home and raise . In other cases, women don’t mind earning more money, but think the men they’re with would feel diminished by that. I heard one story where a woman was making more than her guy, and the day she came home with a Porsche was the day the relationship was over. { she can buy what ever she wants to buy} Liz Kelly: For a woman who’s on a limited budget and feels strapped, it’s scary to take on someone who’s making significantly less money. That pressure can create an imbalance in the relationship which can make people — both men and women — feel uncomfortable. { learn to work together, or set a price on yourself} Haley: My current boyfriend pays for everything and I think I make more than he does, but I like it that way because it feels romantic, caring and chivalrous. Dating a man without money is really tough because you end up paying for everything and that wears on you after awhile. [ men should feel the same way if he is always paying } Q: The upsides to dating a man with money are pretty obvious — but are there any downsides? Jillian Strauss: There’s an old saying that goes, “If you marry for money, you earn every penny.” { there's all kind of hookers, both short term, and long term} Jen: I’ve dated men with money and without and have often found that guys with money have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. You’re never that special to them because they think they can get any woman they want. Now I’m trying to find someone in the middle: Someone with a decent income but who is a nice guy. { it should only matter if you want to love the person or not, not whether they have money or not- if the two can't work together, then they should not be together} Q: So what do men think about women who consider money to be a priority? Sebastian: I once met a woman who seemed more interested in my sports car than in me. Even so, in my mind there’s nothing wrong with wanting to live well. { living well as a couple, should be a mutual contributory situation} Dann: I don’t think it’s any worse than men pursuing only women who are really physically attractive. But I do think anyone who does that is shallow. That said, it’s frustrating not having a lot of money because it means that you can’t do nice things to impress someone you love. You need to be resourceful — bargain hunt for good gifts or plan a date around renting a movie. { why is the relationship based on what he give her, just for showing up, they both should be givers, or they should quote expectation up front} Liz Kelly: Lots of guys with money will complain to me that they don’t want to always pay for dates because they want to make sure that the woman is with them for who they are, not for how much they earn. But I agree with Dann: It’s the romance and chivalry that women want — not the free meal. { Chivalry, really only means the man is giving the woman something, but it does not imply that she is sharing anything, beyond her presence} Q: So what should a man do if he doesn’t make much money? Rebecca: I don’t feel like I need my boyfriend to spend a lot of money on me to show me that he loves me. He does that in a million little ways, like always filling my car with gas or leaving me cute little notes around the house. [ seems no matter how it goes the expectations of some collateral things, always seem to creep in } Liz Kelly: Guys without money to burn need to work a little harder, that’s all. Small gestures, like burning a CD of your favorite music, go a long way towards making a woman feel special. Guys should also pay for dates early on. Career women are happy to pick up the tab when dating someone seriously, but in the early stages of dating, the guy should get the tab. It sets the stage for building a stronger relationship. { if his money sets the stage of the relationship, he would be smart to 'exit the stage" QUICKLY } Jillian Straus: I agree that there’s still value in symbolic gestures, like being taken out to a nice dinner. It doesn’t mean that I’m not a modern woman, it’s just that I really value the symbolic exchange — it makes a woman feel adored. { if him giving her stuff is the only way that she feels adored, he is in for a hell of a nightmare, the minute he does not spend money on her } Jen: Even if you have a lot of money, you still need to be romantic. If all you do is flash your money around, you’ll only attract opportunists. [ anyone expecting something from the other, before they can be romantic is an opportunist anyway} Q: Any advice for women? Dann: In general, a woman should ignore finances and pick the guy who makes her laugh. All the money in the world won’t matter if sitting across the dinner table from this guy night after night bores you to tears. [ material and monetary minded women, are simply not this rational - there are more guys who have smiling women on Pay day, and when the money is gone, he has to look at the prune face. The people who learn to share and expect less, and contribute what they have to make a good relationship, will probably build a good relationship } (end) _____________________________________________________ both people should work to earn what they want.. being in a relationship, should not relieve a woman nor a man, from having to earn and contribute to the lives shared. If they believe as they claim, that love is free, and that sharing makes the relationship.. then why the imbalance about who makes more money? it should not matter. but if it matters, then people whom it matters to, maybe should discuss it and choose each other, and those it does not matter unto, will find their peace in who they share  quite amazing, this article has said nothing about what the woman gives, other than showing up, and passing judgments about the mans earning. Maybe in such " and John" scenarios, they get what they deserve, for playing that role, and trying to call it something other than what it is. No wonder people make such terrible relationships, the ", , , and john, sequence, simply seems to be in a multitude of arrangements, and the buy, sell, and barter is what the connection seem to find its basis. Funny thing is, a man can go and buy a , for cash, and she will laugh and share and do and be there, as long as the cash keeps coming. and most of the relationships today, seem to be no different. If one has to pay, then why make a once sided agreement, and claim marriage, when its cheaper to pay cash as you go, and not have to deal with the dictation mentality, as well as the continual up and down attitude based on what he pays, when he pays and how much he pays. a man can find the pretentious of niceness from any , call girls, or what ever type of prostituting scenario that exist, and not only can he get the niceness, they will come out of the woodwork to be and pretend with such demeanor, as long as a pay day is within the scenario. Fortunately, there are men, who actually do find women who do not measure him by money, and those men, seem to have enduring relationships with woman. There are women, who don't make an issue about her earnings, nor do they have reluctance to contribute what ever into the relationships, even if she pays more expenses, she is in it to be 'together", not to be bought, not is she selling him a bill of goods. today, women ride on the illusion of a degree, and what kind of clothes she can buy, and what kind of status she can claim, and those are less likely to have functioning relationships based on loving anything, but her title and her money. We see more and more of those types, who have no family interest, not do they have any kind of concern about having , and the volume of such is greatly increasing. But there are still lots of women, who take her jobs as simply having a job, and they value the relationship they can share, more than the status chases, and the title illusions. I worked with a woman, whom got a few promotions, soon as she did, she began to badger her husband, nothing he did was good enough, and she suddenly even began to complain about his hobbies, and everything about him. then she lost her job, and had to rely on him to cover expense. he never wavered, he paid, and he urged her to go back and take more classes, and he even got a second job, to help pay for it. Through it all, she finally realized, that not only was he solid in being whom he is, she then realized, that he paid her way, long before she was on the promotion track, and she realized that she was with him, long before her status search got the best of her, and she learned, not only to share, but to respect the work he did. they had broken up when she was on her status mission, as she complained about his type of work, and she complained about everything he did, and even complained about the conversations they had. She started to chase the suit wearers, and then when she got burned, and all came tumbling down. then she began to see her man as a human beings, and began to be more respectful of the fact of his non glamorous work, as being work, he engaged and maintained as a job. She even began to realize, that he never stopped caring and taking care of things for her , which was not his by birth, and he treated his own birth no different than he treated her by a previous man, with the same love and considerations. Now she respect the fact that he did not leave her when she was on this ego status mission, and he did not fall apart behind all her puts downs, and insults about his work, and his earnings. but many women, don't have the character to wake up. they just bounce from one chase of status and material pursuits to another. and many badger and some even attack the man with such fierce assault mentality, they run him away. During this woman's cycle of status chase, it got so bad, that her Husband would go to church at Sunday evening service, and she would go on the morning, to keep the peace. Now, that this cycle has gone full circle, she not only respects him, but she appreciates him, and she now earns more than he does, but she does not complain. His job had cut his hours temp. and she did not complain, now he is back to full hours, and has seniority in his position, She does not complain about, contributing, and she likes now to not just shop for herself, but she is now more open to look for things, to give him as gifts and take him out and many things. it took all that for her to learn to be a sharing human being, rather than one of the hook and expect females. they recently bought a new house, and she does not trip when he purchases things that he enjoys. Some times, men have to let her go through her selfish delusion of thinking she is everything, and thinking that he owes her something for her presence. some endure and make it, but many don't. ____________________________________________________________ what does it matter who makes the most money, one can only enjoy so many things, and money will be here when they are dead and gone, But today, there are so many women who earn, claim they can't find anyone, but they are never willing nor concerned to look at their own ego and arrogance and selfish consumption with themselves, to realize, many times they are their own problem. many women can't even get along with other women, for the ego measurement they engage, the delusion that the clothes make them better than another woman, and those who ride the degree , become many times even more self elating in their status delusion. What I see here, in the community where people are more religious based, is they seek a higher value point about their lives, than basing it on purely material equations. They seem to enjoy the simple things, more than just pursing status elation. It does not mean they don't like nice things, or to go to nice places, but they seem to be more sharing with their mate. And less willing to throw their relationships away, just because the man makes less, or does not have a certain measure of disposable income. I look at the women at the office, they seem to talk more about what they share with their husbands, not about what he gives her. I see these men come to the office, they seem not only happy with their relationship, they take out the time to come and see their wives, and many of the wives meet their husbands for lunch. |
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8/21/2010 10:01 am |
Very good discussion, I've experienced that in real life as well as here on AFF..hate to be asked when first chat how much money do you make, do you have a house, what do u do..bla..bla..bla..questions all related to $$..that's sad..women are putting their standard of love based on $$ only nowaday..
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they hate to be told the truth of how they have converted their lives into a form of prostitution.. with a "price search mentality", smiling to the highest bargain they think they can corral. Older men, today have become very aware and wise unto it, and many have no time for the pathetic demeanor of many women. many play their lives like a tease, they utter sexual innuendo as slap stick, and then are quick to turn and try and claim a guy wrong or any other things when he discusses anything sexual. Unfortunately, many now are nothing more than teases with a pursuit of ulterior aims, to gain something or have some expense covered while they hoard and cling to their money like a desperate sole, in love with a piece of currency. many men fall for the sarcasm, and the slants they utter in their slap stick, and their one liner sarcasms.. but what becomes truth, is they become what they speak. by the times some men find out such reality, she has ripped and robbed him, while pretending to be a nice person, which has a lifespan, about the extend of the glee from the next purchase he makes for her. When he's not buying, she's griping and complaining, and slinging sarcasms. when he's not appeasing, she is name calling and every other profane thing. and then steps back unaware of her own actions and blind to the reality of her own ways. Because she has a delusion of being entitled to act in such self consumed ways, that she cannot see the reflection of herself from herself, even is she is surrounded by mirrors. She is simply caught up in delusion with her physical reflection, that she can't see the vile nature of her own character, and the void of consideration which is not a part of her make up. When they are not patronized, they become like a cornered beast, lashing out. But no shape of the butt, or paint on the face, can hide it, nor is the world any longer with the mass of men who are unaware to see the vicious mentality many women live by. but wise men, need not fret, nor worry- he knows the difference, and understand how not to entwine himself in such madness. many men are now smart enough to know, if he wants a hooker or a prostituting type, just pay cash and send her home when its over. No need to pay day after day, and be badgered by the minute, trying to make him submit and patronize everything utterance that she speaks. Knowing these distinctions, has many men, very much not motivated to consider to create an engagement to such types. Why would he seek to encumber himself unto such madness. there are women, in the world who still have the human dignity to respect and appreciate men, and equally so appreciate being women. but rarely are these types found on the achievement trails of glutton and greed, ego and status, haughty elation and selfish delusions of superiority. Unfortunate as it is, educations and degree status, has produced more social ignorance, and inhumane mentality in some female types, who devote their lives to money, sex toys, chasing other women, trying to dominate other women, or playing suck up to each others madness, and thinking they are better than the male human being. We have a mass of 30 something childless women, who have no concept or thought of what is motherhood, and they are void of the capacity to love anything but their selfish concept of themselves. No need to try and hope they see to learn different, their grooming is set and their paths shows how well trodden it is... as men, who seek reality, such one will find truth, and vivid presence of such female types, the wise men are aware to see, and he will be able to discern between the types, to avoid these social monsters.
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