beyondfantasy3 113M
2012 posts
2/19/2012 9:33 am
What nations could learn from each other

The headline reads:
China cuts bank reserve ratio to spur growth
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What nations could learn from each other ?


The Saving and Loan Crash back some years ago, was due to the level of reserves required being reduced.
The banking Crash, had a component tied to the lowered level of reserve which was insufficient to support the level of speculative trading and utter gambling these institutions engaged.

What continue to cause the havoc in global financial concerns is 'speculation', and borrowing against speculative value.

Speculative value is another form of "Corporate Raiding", the tactic is the same, the method is the same and the end result is the same. The pyramid scheme of it all has but one outcome, and that is economic downfall, diminished value, and possible crash.

Paper shuffling based value is the fiction that feeds the wealth to become more wealthy, while it depletes the re-circulation of currency among the ranks of the people.

Again Greed pushes the global systems to another level of invoking hardships within the system as well upon the people who rely on the systems.

Banks continue to be and will be the downfall of many nations until a time people can learn that greed in the banking system is the culprit of many nations struggles.

China's problem is it has become addicted to high % growth, when that is unreal in sustainability. Other nations are now beginning to restore their own industrial capacity on their own lands, china has began to export production to other lands trying to gain more on a greed level, than to put its people to work and help its own people become consumers of what they produce. China suffers because it has not become a nation which supports growth in being an importer from the same countries that it has relied heavily on exporting to. The imbalance has a backlash component. That component is nations taking back their industry, and re-casting themselves to rely less on Chinese production. This pattern will speed up 10 fold in the next 5 years.
But, China has not figured out, that it must learn how to make its people consumers of their own products, it has failed to create a safety net for the aging population, by creating a Social Security system that helps support their citizens to be stable and ultimate consume some of its productions.
The Marquee Provinces of industry, has not translated into prospering growth for many of the dire poor Provinces.

It has met the measure of having a population who no longer is one where men and women have the drive to make families and build relations, it has a massive level of covert homosexuality which has diminished the male / female capability from stopping it from becoming an aged society. The same has taken place in Japan in recent years, the women are less inclined to marry and even lesser inclined to have and this trend has ravaged and aged Japans society for the past 30+ years.

Material matter has become to replace the human concerns and corruption is 100 fold what it use to be in China. The matter is of many things, but today the wealth chase is on and there is no way to reverse the wealth from dominating the resources and capital within the nation, and they set imagery that is unattainable by the massive population. this is a critical class divide that is unlike any other caste and class division ever in the history of the nation. Even dynasties whom conquered other Dynasties over a long history did not have the elements involved of which exist today to the extent it exist today.

20 years ago, China missed the pathway when it came to the fork in the road. It was so busy trying to dominate every market and attack industries in other countries, it failed to realize that it was not focused on creating a consumer base in the broader sense of its people in the non industrial Provinces. A sense of elitism has separated the people. with many of the same mindset that the HKG People held about the Mainland People. But now that mindset is wide spread in the Mainland, with province disrespecting other provinces because of their lack of industrial capacity and the wealth modeling of the mass production centers.

The world of money and madness .. become a challenge when capitalism over takes the humane dignity of community of citizenry. people become seen as industrial oil in a money shuffle cycle , with the oil being used and discarded, the same as one would change the oil in a car.
a cut-throat process envelops a society, as the dire chase for financial hoarding become more vicious. One measuring the other, based on financial holding, and humane regard only extended if one thinks there is a profit angel within the association.

The people have no voice about the level of required reserves being lowered, nor do they have the knowledge of consequence this cycle can bring about. Eventually, the same thing China complains about within other nations, it will find itself doing the same thing in coming years. That is: printing money to feed a system it allowed to become weakened, but the strategy is in some ways meant to keep the currency value low, as a means of making itself remain attractive as a industrial center.
but devious means bring disaster to methodology, which ultimately become a quagmire which will be unable to unwind or manage the web it weaves. . Haughtiness is a symptom of wealth built upon speculation and over saturation. Based on the current mindset it will not be able to make a transition in a timely manner to shift its course directions. Once the turmoil starts, it will be through the turmoil that is learns to re-shape its course.



beyondfantasy3 113M
4740 posts
2/19/2012 7:56 pm

this is probably another subject that people will become uninterested and reluctant to engage and expound upon... "how sad".... the cycle of such is common within this site.


beyondfantasy3 113M
4740 posts
2/20/2012 6:41 am

    Quoting  :

Thank you, for the time to indulge the subject matter


beyondfantasy3 113M
4740 posts
2/20/2012 6:55 am

it is designed to inspire people to think and explore the ramification of such high level policy decisions. many people are investors of a variety of sorts.

This could well be a warning to them, that these type of bubble making fixes can leave many devastated when the Pyramid of it all tumbles down. It may be the thing of thought to do, is investigate beyond what any brokers or traders have to say, and look for thing which has its value connected to solid things based on actual value, not speculative guess like gambling of which much of the paper shuffle is designed upon.

People can be smarter about how they invest and not be led nor mis-led by the games paper shufflers play. There is much information in the web, about the cycles of spike and crash, as well as chronicle the people who have found their lives devastated by following the money shufflers, as they take their cut and leave the investor exposed to principal erosion of their hard earned monies.

Actuaries who deal with loss and risk management scenarios, and loss mitigation are hired by large system, . The large system as well as the government, have a back up. They can always have the government to issue new money or some other bridge support. as they deal with the % gains based on the loss ratio.
This is not something the common citizen investor has, when they suffer losses due the the gaming and speculative gamble, the citizen is devastated and may well loose what it has taken them years upon years to earn. They have no recourse nor back-up underwriters.
many have been made bankrupt by the games being played out at the higher levels.

If people learn, and accept certain truths, which was exposed during the major crash of 2008. It was a mass of fresh out of college and others who had been in the game, stated they did not know anything about credit default swaps, derivatives, and many of the other paper shuffle schemes which were devised, they simply followed along making deals just to keep a job. End result; a nation as well as the global system of nation suffered the loss of countless Trillions of hard money and speculative claims of value. It was wiped out.

The more aware people become, the more they can force the system to change. If not by voice, they can do so by being more wise about how they invest., and less willing to take the money changers words as gospel.

It's still people, who make the world change. But to do so, people must become informed therefore they can understand what changes are needed and how to engage themselves to necessitate the reality of those changes taking place.
Brokers and traders are only contained when people ask questions. but people must choose to become informed, in order to know the questions to ask.

As to this site, many people have finances so deeply entrenched in whether or not they make or relationship, and it even determines if many even stay in relationship... many may deny the fact, but the minute the money changes, so does a great many peoples concepts of whom they love or if they will continue loving. yet.. subjects as such are generally ignored, by the same people who will destroy are relationship when money status changes.

Some people only believe the fantasy they create in their mind about love, only if someone else can afford to pay for it for them.

Love is like investing, those who go for the get rich quick schemes meet the same fate as those who go for the wanderlust of fantasy about love, but the investor who understand that long term gains that may not be astronomical by the day, find over time their gains are stable.. the same as those who go for the long term investment of loving, find their lives enriched beyond their imagined concepts.


beyondfantasy3 113M
4740 posts
2/20/2012 11:40 am

    Quoting  :

Until the day the public gives focus to the criminal nature of banks and stand up and not go to banks for investments, but deal with them only for loans and various deposits, but it will take investors to not invest in banks that trade in the markets using peoples deposits and other things as leverage and get banks back into the business of simple lending for consumer purposes and be it private or corporate lending. "period'
The mortgage business should be a government entity and not a banking matter, because the homes of people is the value point within any nation, and never should this be allowed to be in the hands of greedy gambling minded banks.


beyondfantasy3 113M
4740 posts
2/20/2012 11:55 am

No banks should be allowed to trade anything on the stock exchanges nor should banks be allowed to become part of the stock exchange.

some nation will get smart and change it, and remove banks from this madness, but it won't be the US, because we are financially ignorant. That is evident in how this country blew 500 years of financial prosperity in a matter of 8 years. and spent the last 30 years letting banks and lawyers convince them to borrow against speculative value and result to export industry and sell of everything just to pay the banks interest which was based on a fictitious value which the company could never produce enough sales to meet.

Most people would be smart not to put their business on the stock exchanges, why build something and turn it over to greedy people who will suck it dry and over leverage it and then result to pay trained goons to run it, for the sole sake of investors greed, instead of stability and long term performance.

One day business will realize they don't need the stock market. they can sell their own bonds and create shares to back those bonds and sell them directly to investors who are in it for the long term. Then there will be no more day traders playing games and robbing companies blind in the process and stealing the gains away from long term investors.

Then we will have a honest based 'Bond" business which is tied directly to production and sales. Not speculative inflated value.

More people have lost their companies by going public, they may have become very wealthy but they lost the heart and soul of their work, and traded it in for vanity... Many of those same people end up divorced, and every other kind of malady that fast wealth that is no longer tied to work and the value of daily contributing to build and create something.

The old days, DuPont and Rockefeller were great, because they never totally gave their companies over to goons, they insured they remained to insure the integrity and value they aspired to create was part of their business.
today, people waste their money on gadgets for the sake of vanity instead of function. And result to have to repurchase the same item every 9-12-18 months. because their product is made non popular by some non essential components case design or color changes and a new marketing ploy.

Years ago, things were made to be durable... We did not have landfill problems, nor rapid depletion of natural resources, because things were not made to be disposed of in 18 months. We are no where near being a society that can recycle fast enough to support disposable production as a rule.


masada125 62M

2/21/2012 4:34 pm

Look at the Federal Reserve in the USA. It is a privately owned entity beholden to no one.
THe arrogance of banks is amazing. I love the way they call their scams "instruments" and "products."
And the bailouts of banks and investment houses like Goldman Sachs is proof positive that large banking institutions enjoy a very unhealthy and uous relationship with our increasingly bloated and broke national government.
Also, what exactly does the IMF do, and whose money is it distributing.
Thanks for another thought-provoking subject Beyond.


beyondfantasy3 113M
4740 posts
2/25/2012 6:08 pm

these are interesting comments, excellent perspective by Lucy and YmQin, equally so by masada.and woaini.

Lucy hit on some very good pointers about the need to move forth when they hit the fork point. I certainly agree with both Lucy and YmQin, China has done very good and quality work in infrastructure regards. It has also become very proficient in building sky scrapers.. they had some projects, that were per-fabricated and transported and they assembled sky scrapers in an astounding record time. the bridges are simply amazing, but they also build quality in their newest highway system to support an high traffic public.

I noticed years ago in HKG, the quality of materials they used when they built the HKG Airport. they did not go cheap, they used excellent grade granite and other durable stone in the workmanship.
China also is taking a good step in developing efficiency in their construction projects usage of energy.

I do think China is making a very big mistake in destroying Farm lands, because food is and will remain a key component to any society, as well as it must concern itself to manage its fresh water supply.
but where China may truly need more work is a better control system of managing toxic waste, and track it better and dispose of it in a way where it does not become 40 years from now a major tragedy.

There is no way that any nations in today's system can produce that much synthetic materials and not have a waste disposal problem, because enough investment has not gone into the expanded recycling nor the expanded ability to dispose of the massive waste. With the levels of corruptions and blind eye policy to certain things, We can be certain there is a massive amount of dumping in the oceans and the remote areas, where stuff is being buried the least expansive ways.

Another matter for China is Sewer management, it has to be an astoundingly massive undertaking to handle the volume of waste, because cities and province that house millions and 10's of millions of people.
some Provinces have 60-70-80 million people, I think one of the higher number for some is 90 million. That is an inconceivable amount of daily waste to manage.
Then there is the Physical Trash that is generated on a daily basis.
these things are far less discussed than is necessary.

It may be to China's benefit not to push so hard for World Leader Status, and push more to be a full circle system with quality standards in how the system develops.. The rush to be declared a world power is a very dangerous position, and it is more costly than the ability to sustain it can be easily upheld.
The British are now more relieved not to have the responsibility they once had, even though it was a loss of money, but it also was a gain in being less responsible for such a broad span of space in a changing world. There was a time the sun never set on the British empire, but today, they are thankful for nightfall within their span of empire.

The same for the U.S. , time and life has and is demonstrating that it is no longer beneficial to have ones empire try and span the globe. Diplomacy is more important than the claim of ownership or control over other foreign nations systems.

The world is and will continue to move toward a more democratized world, and China has made a lot of changes over the time span, some due to capitalism, but some due to the fact that with wealth must come levels of liberty. But it has to be managed carefully. Because untamed democracy is dangerous. because factions can and will challenge others in a full democracy, and at this point China cannot afford full scope democracy.
there are too many Sects and Clans, that will rush to claim power and create instability and conflict. but also there is a cultural matter in the mix, because without a managed sense of cultural change, it can be a massive mix of conflicts of sorts unimaginable, because people rebuke fast change, and many sects and clans have value systems they are not willing to merge in the manners that a democracy would bring into play under the aims of continuing peace.

China has a very subliminal level within its culture of competitiveness among its people. this is something that has to be deal with on a long term transition. but on the economic side, the more democracy and capitalism mix the the power structure will create some of the same thing the Soviet System experienced, and that is.. power grabs and awarding certain lucrative things to certain families, and that creates another power challenge within the systems, which can become destabilizing as well as very conflicting in many ways to drive a broad imbalance in how it grows.

When China has to cut its reserves that banks are required to maintain, then it is pushing its growth too fast. It has its eyes set on 8% growth as a bottom line base and a general standard.. and the world is far to much in transition to re-distribute industrial economics, where this is not sustainable nor is it practical based on a system that is hinging its growth factor on profits from exports. it may well want to consider an internal uplift factor of 2-3% as a concerns to take priority over a 8% export based income measure.

It's an insult to the system of growth, for people for example at Foxcom to be paid $1.78 an hour in a country that wants to claim itself to be a leader in growth; because the people can't even afford the products they produce. another matter is when the Chinese currency is still equated at around 7:1 against the dollar.

The world is and will continue to make changes in the currency valuation and China will have to meet the measure to change or it will become challenged by many other factors on the world stage. Countries will not continue to allow imports from China to undercut the cost of items produced in their own country. The world has and is learning that it is of key importance that its own people work, because no system can sustain itself without its own people producing a high % of what they consume.

Nation to nation debt ratio will undergo a transformation, in how that value is calculated to push for a better balance in how nations can and do function. It's an inevitable issue that must be addressed, or the global inflation will crash the global economy and make trade become to be a level of warfare that will take down nation upon nation...

The imbalance and rapid depletion of natural resources will dictate much in the coming years and many changes in how governments function with one another.

China will eventually come to the realization that it has but one options as it relates to N. Korea, and that is to contain and put some regulator controls in how it supports N. Korea, and that will include bringing N. Korea to become a nations that meets and fits with the world of nations in how it functions as well as how it treats its people. The transformations are in process, but that process will have to be ramped up. The cost of N. Korea is and will become increasingly a challenge to China.

The next level of leadership to come in China will have a more focused inclination to consider a moderate change in how they function with a more democratized influence in how it shapes itself. Capitalism has mandated this within the system, as well as the flow of information and the ability of Chinese people to become not only more informed but to become more vocal in how they discuss their system and their lives. the next 30 years will being much of change as the old systems fade and a new generation steps up within the citizen population.

It would do well to learn from the Japanese, how not to get too hung up on status of material items, in such rapid saturation. but along with that comes many other lessons that it must grasp which currently it is not giving such needs the attentions that it truly will ultimately find necessary.